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Player Tiers by Position – Point Guards

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Categorized as: Author: Patrick, Fantasy Basketball, Fantasy Draft Guide Mojo 2008
Posted on: September 21st, 2008

It’s that time of year again! Player tiers! By position!

So what are player tiers? It’s the practice of grouping players of similar value into levels or tiers. The goal is to identify areas where there are large gaps in value between groups of players, so that there is a large drop off in value between the players in tier A and those in tier B. This not only simplifies drafting, it also helps you to identify times during a draft where it might be worthwhile to take a lesser ranked player at a certain position because he is the last guy available from his tier, while there maybe be plenty of similarly ranked players are other positions.

Let’s get the player tiers rolling with point guards. As always, these tiers are based on the ones available in our positional tiers spreadsheet, which will be updated throughout the fall. Players are listed under their tier along with their position on our Big Board.

Tier 1 – The Undisputed Champ

Chris Paul (1)

What more can be said about Paul? He’ll go somewhere in the top 4 picks in every draft and should go number one.

Tier 2 – The Stars (But are you comfortable building a team around these guys?)

Allen Iverson (12)
Baron Davis (15.5)

It’s a bit of strange year for fantasy drafts. After the Dirk/KG/Wade/Brand/Marion tier in the first round, there is realistically about 10-12 guys you could pick after that and feel like you made a good pick. Despite his age, Iverson is probably the best PG to go after other than Paul (now that Agent Zero and his knee are a bit of an unknown). Iverson has played long enough and with enough consistency on the Nuggets that we know he’s going to be a 25 and 7 guy. Davis has the ability to put better numbers overall than Iverson and had a better year than him last year, but it’s still tough to trust B-Diddy farther than you can see his beard.

Tier 3 – The Studs

Chauncey Billups (20)
Steve Nash (28.5)
Deron Williams (28.5)
Jose Calderon (32)
Gilbert Arenas (29)

I seriously considered putting Billups in the second tier, but I just didn’t like the way that tickled my giblets. He did finish 13th on the GMTR 9-cat rater last season (24th in 8-cat leagues), and while he is getting older, Billups is a year younger than Iverson. What I don’t like about Billups is that his minutes dropped from 36 to 32 a game last season. Thanks to some good percentages, his fantasy game has remained strong, but the counting stats have been on the slow decline since 2006.

Calderon and Williams each have their group of admirers who are a little too willing to reach for them in drafts. They both should be in for good years, just try not to reach for them too soon.

And poor Gilbert Arenas. Either you’re the type of owner that would consider Arenas on your team for the right price, in which case you’re silently nodding your head in agreement with him in this tier, or you’re the type of owner who will never allow Arenas near one of your fantasy teams ever again, in which case you’re starting to foam at the mouth that I’d even consider putting Arenas in the same tier as Billups.

Tier 4 – Solid Veterans

Jason Kidd (47.5)
Mo Williams (50.5)
Andre Miller (57.5)

There is nothing to be ashamed about if you wait until this tier to grab your first point guard. Dallas Kidd is never going to be the player he was with New Jersey (there is no way he’s averaging 8 rebounds a game anymore, for example), although his assist numbers are still Kidd-like at 9+ a game. Mo Williams joins LeBron this season, which people generally agree is going to be good for his fantasy prospects. And Andre Miller’s assist totals should be happy to see Elton Brand. If you do draft Miller, just keep an eye out for everyone’s favorite super-sleeper, Louis Williams, who could steal some minutes away from the veteran.

Tier 5 – Risks and Rewards and Devin Harris

Monta Ellis (79)
Kirk Hinrich (78)
Leandro Barbosa (77)
Devin Harris (81.5)
Mike Bibby (86.5)

Devin Harris is the only sure thing in this tier – a tier full of risk and (possibly) reward. Ellis, fresh off his breakout season, injured his ankle while “outdoors” (a very dangerous place, if I do say so myself). He’ll be out until sometime in December at the earliest, and could be affected by the injury for the rest of the year. Hinrich is coming off a bad fantasy year, although if you examine the numbers, it was solely due to a decrease in minutes. With the Bulls drafting Derrick Rose, it could be more of the same for Hinrich in 08/09. Like Hinrich, Leandro Barbosa took a step back last season minutes-wise thanks to the general good health of all the Suns guards. Barring injuries, it should be more of the same for Leandro as well.

Tier 6 – Solid Number Twos

Rajon Rondo (90)
Rafer Alston (92)
TJ Ford (97.5)
Anthony Carter (100)
Derek Fisher (102)
Jameer Nelson (106)
Tony Parker (109) – By popular demand – Tony gets bumped up to tier 6. Your love is so contagious, I even moved him up a few spots on my player rankings.

It’s a tier full of serviceable second point guards who have limited amounts of upside. Rondo might have some, but to say his offensive game is still rough is a little understatement – he was passing up open lay-ups in the NBA finals. I’m not going to believe his shot has improved until I can see it with my very own eyes. The rest of these guys are pretty much who we think they are, although it should be noted that TJ Ford might not be the super injury risk he’s assumed to be.

Tier 7 – Maaaaybe Something Good is in Store

Derrick Rose (111.5)
Tony Parker (111.5)
Raymond Felton (113)
Nate Robinson (116)
Beno Udrih (115.5)
Ramon Sessions (122)
Russell Westbrook (119)

Tier 7 is kinda like the tier 6 only with a little more risk. Both Sessions and Udrih came out of nowhere to earn starting jobs last season. Sessions averaged an insane 7.5 assists in only 26 and a half minutes a game last season. Great, right? Well, the Bucks aren’t so sure. They signed Luke Ridnour this off season, which will probably result in some kind of point guard sharing role between Sessions and Ridnour.

According to our Big Board, Derrick Rose should be the first rookie PG taken, which shouldn’t be a surprise. Although Russell Westbrook should also get every opportunity in Oklahoma to at least be in the mix, if not start.

Tier 8 – The Rest

Earl Watson (133.5)
Jerryd Bayless (134.5)
Jordan Farmar (142.5)
Louis Williams (147)
Jason Williams (151.5)
Antonio Daniels (162)
Mike Conley (163.5)
Delonte West (178.5)
Chris Duhon (182)
DJ Augustin (173.5)
Steve Blake (176)
Luke Ridnour (180)
Marcus Williams (189) – like Antonio Daniels, Williams should get some run at the beginning of the season filling in for Monta Ellis.
Stephon Marbury (194)

It’s the end of the draft and you need one more point guard. This is what you’ll be looking at. Louis Williams is probably the best of the bunch, however, he’s blocked behind Andre Miller at the moment. With the Gilbert Arenas injury, Daniels will be the Wizards’ starter for at least a month and maybe longer. Mike Conley is worth taking a chance on – add a few more minutes a game to his rookie season and he’d be more like a tier 6 guy. The Knicks signed Chris Duhon to be their starter, so, you know, he’ll be starting. Maybe. Nels seems to hate the guy, probably because he had to watch him play for 4 years in Chicago.

Other Stuff Like This:

  • Doneycat

    Since you talk about Antonio Daniels, you may want to scoot Marcus Williams (193) in there somewhere, just for the fact that he will get some early minutes in “The City”.

  • bucko

    I agree with Doney on Marcus Williams, but besides that and the fact that I’m one of the “Don’t draft Arenas” guys, the rest of the tier rankings I like.

  • Jensen

    Tony Parker is too low.

    No chance in hell i am drafting Jameer Nelson or Derek Fisher before Parker.

  • http://www.sportspriceperhead.com Jay Smith

    Excellent post, thank you!

  • seanlb

    i love these posts. they are the most bestest in terms of usefulitude.

  • Dr. Snuggles

    Why is Tony Parker this low? No one is going to draft Hinrich, Derek Fisher, Jameer Nelson or Mike Bibby before Parker

  • Jensen

    I mean Tony Parker should be in a higher tier. That’s why he is too low.

  • http://www.RotoEvil.com RotoEvil

    Wow, did you really just call Derek Fisher and Anthony Carter solid #2 point guards?!?

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Nels

    Okay, here’s the deal as I see it: Point Guards are supposed to make three pointers, shoot free throws well, get lots of assists, and steal the ball (and ideally score a lot to give you that 5th category). Parker is well below the league average (for guards) in threes and free throws, and only average in steals. He is above average in assists, and points. So if you’re trying to build a small ball team, you’re down 2-3 right there. Plus, Parker shoots kind of a lot of free throws (5 per game) so his 71% from the line will actually hurt you. Yeah, his FG% is good, but you don’t build a small ball team expecting good FG%.

    Jameer Nelson is better than Parker in threes, has a much higher FT% (though he doesn’t shoot as many), had close to as many assists, and slightly more steals. Yeah, you lose a lot in scoring, but he’s still above the league average there. He’s also above the league average in assists and steals. So, at worst, you’ve got 2-3 in the 5 small ball categories, which is basically the same as Parker. Also, if you look at the rankings, we’ve got Nelson 106 and Parker at 111.5 – a difference of 5.5 spots. That’s less than half a round. Yes, we split them on tiers there, but really, when you’re getting down to the 8th and 9th rounds, you have to look at what each individual players gives you versus just where they happen to be ranked…

    Continuing on…

    Derek Fisher is above or close to the league average in threes, assists, steals and points. Yes, he doesn’t get as many assists or points as Tony Parker, but he’s helping you in threes, and gets more steals. He also helps your FT% out a bit, and usually Points are easier to come by than the other categories. So, you’re at least at 2-3 with Fisher in the small ball categories (or a 2-2 with a push at FT%).

    Anthony Carter had almost as many assists as Parker last season, while shooting so few FTs that his 75% won’t have much of an impact. His points are low, yes, as are his threes (though they’re still higher than Parker’s). He also had close to twice as many steals as Parker and was nearly double the league average in that category. So, once again, you’re at least 2-3 with Carter, and it’s probably closer 2-2 with a push at FT%.

    Let’s also consider that, according to their stats from last season, when input into the GMTR Player Rater (which I tend to find reliable enough that I do actually rely on it), both Carter and Fisher were ranked higher than Parker by at least 16 places. Nelson and Parker ended up so close that I’m not going to question having them ranked very close again this season.

  • Doneycat

    Not a huge Tony Parker fan, but I don’t loathe him either. Actually, I think he’d be my PG2 in a free Yahoo! league where I’d try to get every active NBA Finals MVP: Billups, Wade, Parker; Pierce, Duncan, Shaq.

  • terrance

    well nels, i read the article earlier and agreed with you on teh tiers almost completely. The only difference I had was with parker as well. But the only disagreement i had was that i thought parker MIGHT be better than fisher, but that was just a might, so i thought fisher should be dropped down a tier. I didnt think parker shoujld be in the same tier with alston, rondo and everyone else. You seem to be getting quite a bit of heat with parker, Ive thought he was overrated for a few years.

    Parker is more valuable in real life than in fantasy IMO

  • http://pointsinthepaint.wordpress.com/ Points in the Paint

    wow! That’s a lot of backlash on the Tony tiering thing. He works best in a big man strategy, because he’s a PG that doesn’t hurt your FG% and odds are you may have punted FT%. He’s like a square peg in a round hole type of PG.

    Frankly, the sweetest thing about his game is off the court! – Eva Longoria baby! Yummy!

  • Doneycat

    Are y’all forgetting? He can rap in French!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-12GdBEY9A

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Nels

    I’m totally with Terrance on Tony Parker. I would like to have him on my real life team, but not so crazy about having him on my fantasy team.

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Patrick

    Hey guys! I can feel the love! A lot of Tony Parker fans in the house. I think Nels hits the head on Parker. If you want a point guard who doesn’t shoot threes, doesn’t steal the ball, shoots free throws as well as LeBron James, and contributes a 17th best in the league 6 assists a game, well, the man is all yours. He is a decent scorer, so he’s got that going for him.

    That being said, Jensen and Dr. Snuggles bring up a good point. In a real draft, I think people will tend to lean towards Parker over someone like Derek Fisher and especially Anthony Carter because Parker brings some consistency with him. You know what you’re going to get out of him, and that should be worth something. So based on everyone’s feedback, I’d be open to bumping Parker up to the next tier (even though I’d probably never draft him), as long as Nels is cool with it. Tier 6 is a spot where you’d start thinking about drafting him.

    As far as Fisher and Carter go, the numbers don’t lie. I wouldn’t want them running my real NBA team, but fantasy wise they bring enough to the table to be worthy backups/PG2s.

    And Doneycat, you got it, Marcus Williams is in. Good point, he will get some play at the beginning of the season.

    I appreciate the good back and forth on the tiers everyone. Keep it coming – like with the Tony Parker thing – we’re open to change at GMTR if you’re convincing enough. And don’t worry about hurting my feelings, I had them surgically removed a few years ago.

  • http://projectspurs.com/blog Michael

    I don’t know about Tony Parker in tier 7 with guys like Udrih, Sessions, Nate etc.. He should probably be in tier 3. I understand your arguments, but the guy absolutely lights it up in the playoffs. Just look at what he didn against Steve Nash in round 1. Parker average I believe 30 and 8 a game and Nash averaged about 16 a game.

  • http://projectspurs.com/blog Michael

    Yea, I should probably read the comments first.

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Nels

    Patrick, you do whatever you want. Everyone knows that I’m just the big green head, while you’re the man behind the curtain.

  • Jensen

    Thanks for the good points patrick.

    I don’t like the real tony parker, but the fantasy one gives a huge advantage IMO. that is FG%. There aren’t that many PGs who can positively affect FG% like parker, just for te fact he takes alot of shots, and makes half of them. Sure his FT% isn’t that good, but its not an anchor by any means and i think his high FG% for a pg out weigh the negative of a low FT% for a pg, if that makes any sense.

    For comparisons sake, He’ll get probably 20 ppg and 6 ast, and andre miller gets like 13 and 8, to me an assit is worth rougly 1.5 the value of 1 point. I put these two pretty close tier wise.

  • Jensen

    O yes, and the consistency thing too. That helps alot in drafting parker before jameer nelson, or fisher.

  • eisen14

    iverson at tier 2??? rondo at tier 6???? build a team around him ???? is this example information of a of years gone by………like 3 years ago………ur the only guy in the business who as iverson that high and rondo that low……….

  • http://nelswadycki.com nelswadycki

    The date at the top says: September 21st, 2008

    Did you not notice that all of the comments on the post say “1 year ago”? Do you think people went back in time to leave comments on this post or something?

  • Patrick

    It's still a fairly embarrassing tier 2 looking back at things. I like the looks of the first tier, though. That's solid.

  • eisen14

    iverson at tier 2??? rondo at tier 6???? build a team around him ???? is this example information of a of years gone by………like 3 years ago………ur the only guy in the business who as iverson that high and rondo that low……….

  • http://nelswadycki.com nelswadycki

    The date at the top says: September 21st, 2008

    Did you not notice that all of the comments on the post say “1 year ago”? Do you think people went back in time to leave comments on this post or something?

  • Patrick

    It's still a fairly embarrassing tier 2 looking back at things. I like the looks of the first tier, though. That's solid.

  • Anonymous

    iverson at tier 2??? rondo at tier 6???? build a team around him ???? is this example information of a of years gone by………like 3 years ago………ur the only guy in the business who as iverson that high and rondo that low……….

  • eisen14

    iverson at tier 2??? rondo at tier 6???? build a team around him ???? is this example information of a of years gone by………like 3 years ago………ur the only guy in the business who as iverson that high and rondo that low……….

  • http://nelswadycki.com nelswadycki

    The date at the top says: September 21st, 2008

    Did you not notice that all of the comments on the post say “1 year ago”? Do you think people went back in time to leave comments on this post or something?

  • http://nelswadycki.com nelswadycki

    The date at the top says: September 21st, 2008

    Did you not notice that all of the comments on the post say “1 year ago”? Do you think people went back in time to leave comments on this post or something?

  • Patrick

    It’s still a fairly embarrassing tier 2 looking back at things. I like the looks of the first tier, though. That’s solid.

  • Patrick

    It's still a fairly embarrassing tier 2 looking back at things. I like the looks of the first tier, though. That's solid.

  • eisen14

    iverson at tier 2??? rondo at tier 6???? build a team around him ???? is this example information of a of years gone by………like 3 years ago………ur the only guy in the business who as iverson that high and rondo that low……….

  • http://nelswadycki.com nelswadycki

    The date at the top says: September 21st, 2008

    Did you not notice that all of the comments on the post say “1 year ago”? Do you think people went back in time to leave comments on this post or something?

  • Patrick

    It's still a fairly embarrassing tier 2 looking back at things. I like the looks of the first tier, though. That's solid.

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