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Simmons on Fantasy Basketball

Author Icon for Nels

Categorized as: Author: Nels, Diatribes, Fantasy Basketball
Posted on: October 15th, 2008

In an article for ESPN The Magazine, Bill Simmons makes his suggestions on how to improve fantasy basketball.

The Fantasy Basketball Jedi does a good job of analyzing Simmons proposed changes.

A problem-solution article like Simmons almost begs for a point-by-point analysis. I’ve been trying to think of some way around it since I don’t want to seem like I’m just tearing apart what he wrote. I guess I could just take the easy way and say that the only idea of his that I really think would work is the auction style draft, which I believe is available on certain fantasy basketball sites already, so it’s not like it’s the most original thing in the world.

But I’ll preface it this way: Nothing he wants to change is necessarily or categorically wrong. I just feel that some of the changes he proposes would not be as beneficial as perhaps he thinks they would. Brendan at 2nd Round Reach goes ahead and “calls the man out”. (And I promise I actually wrote the rest of this before I went through Brendan’s post)

I am way too passive to call anybody out. Instead, I’ll just list my reasons why I don’t think Simmons suggestions are necessarily the best ones that could be made to improve fantasy basketball.

Such as:

Doubling the weight of Points, Rebounds, Assists: Here’s the thing, fantasy sports aren’t always about being realistic. I mean, in many fantasy football leagues, you draft an entire defense. Does that happen in a real NFL draft? I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. If we wanted to be realistic about fantasy basketball, we could just have one category: Points. I mean, whoever has the most points wins the game, right? Yes, all the additional categories make certain players worth more than others, but the glaring exceptions are usually just that: exceptions. Most people would agree that the top 4 fantasy players: Chris Paul, Amare Stoudemire, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James are the top 4 MVP candidates as well, right?

Let’s also look at what fantasy games are, okay? They’re games. Just like video games. I know from experience that some players in video games don’t reflect reality perfectly either, but again, those are exceptions.

Free agents taken by incompetent owners who spent two minutes preparing for the draft: FBB Jedi dissects this one perfectly:

Also don’t get why he thinks that owners who drafted badly will have the first crack at good early-season free agents. The waiver order should go in reverse draft order, so that’s not necessarily true. Maybe he’s making the point that owners who drafted horribly will have more candidates to cut loose early in the season.

Someone who takes Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in the first round might have screwed up their draft, and maybe they’ll pick up the next Hedo Turkoglu or Mikki Moore, because they’re worried about trying to fix things before they start losing every week. But really, is picking up Hedo Turkoglu or Mikki Moore in place of someone you drafted in the 12th round going to help you beat the guy who picked Shawn Marion right after you (or Elton Brand at 16)? Probably not. Plus, the guy who make the smart pick after the guy who made a dumb pick has a better chance of getting the good free agents because he’ll have a higher waiver wire priority. I think this might be that Simmons is jealous that he doesn’t work the waiver wire as well as other people he plays with. That said, I do think his idea of having money to spend on the waiver wire is a good one.

Only playing with Guards, Forwards, Centers: I don’t know what leagues Simmons is playing in where there’s only 3 positions, but he needs to maybe get out a little more. I think that just about every league I’ve ever played in has had PG, SG, G, SF, PF, F, C, and Util spots. The only one I can think of right now (after several minutes spent reviewing) is the AOL league, and that was just a travesty of a league all around (because AOL wasn’t ready to do fantasy basketball at that point).

On the other hand, though, when I see teams like the Bulls (or maybe the Bucks now) throw out 3-guard lineups, it makes me question the notion of position at all in fantasy basketball. When the Phoenix Suns (of so few years ago) can run-n-gun with Boris Diaw at Center, then do you really need to fill two Center positions for fantasy basketball? I am happy that Yahoo does a good job of recognizing this sort of thing and giving tons of players multi-position eligibility.

Simmons last three issues come down to: Having the fantasy basketball playoffs at the end of the season sucks because everyone who’s not making the playoffs is injured, so only half the fantasy teams are even competitive. I actually wholly agree with this, though my solution is as different from Simmons’ as you can get.

I proposed the following:

Scoring for the league shall end no later than 2 weeks prior to the end of the regular season. For Head-to-Head leagues, the end of the season shall proceed as follows: 6 teams make the playoffs based on regular season standings, with the top 2 teams getting a bye for the first week of the playoffs. The first round and second round of the playoffs will be 1 week each. The final (championship) round of the playoffs will be 2 weeks in length. In a 25 week regular season (where week 25 consists of only 1 or 2 games played by each team; which the NBA has used for the past 3 years) this means the playoffs will start in week 19. The second round will be week 20. And the final round will span weeks 21 and 22. For rotisserie leagues: this simply means the end of the fantasy season will be the end of week 22.

Simmons’ proposes a keeper system + redraft of players from the fantasy teams that don’t make the playoffs. While I admire the innovation, and appreciate that for some people this would probably be really cool, I really violently dislike this idea.

And here’s why:
1) Simmons acknowledges that this changes the entire way you would draft players, and while he thinks this is great, I’m not so sure. E.g., where would you take Caron Butler? It depends on how much faith you have not just in your fantasy team to make the playoffs, but also on the Wizards to make the playoffs in non-fantasy life. You now how have to take into account much more than just Butler, or even just the Wizards as a team. You have to account for the rest of the teams in the division and the conference. This clearly creates extra deviation in any statistical analysis you try to do. And – I would argue – makes it harder for novice fantasy players to have fun playing the game.

2) While Simmons is trying to cut down on the impact of injury down the stretch, he may actually be increasing it. What if you draft Kenrick Perkins as your second center because you think they Celtics are clearly going to be in the playoffs and he’ll be a great second center, or even first center if you get to the Finals. Oh, but then Kevin Garnett gets injured and the Celtics don’t make the playoffs. Perkins would be awesome while Garnett is out, and you might make the fantasy playoffs, but then you’re screwed, because you’d have to hope you can pick up a center who can carry you from one of the fantasy teams that didn’t make it. So, not only do you have to pick a center who’s on a team in NBA playoffs, but you have to pick one from a fantasy team that didn’t make the playoffs?

3) It basically comes down to who bets on the right team during the season and in the redraft. Simmons even says:

You have three Celtics, I have two Hornets. Let’s fight to the death.

This only underscores his apparent lack of fantasy basketball experience. Unless the three Celtics you have are Rondo, Perkins, and Eddie House, and the two Hornets I have are Chris Paul and David West, the person with more players from the teams in the Finals is going to win. This is further exacerbated by Simmons notion that the 1st place team would get three more players than the 4th place team, and the redraft would be straight rounds instead of a serpentine format.

While I know fantasy basketball players often get frustrated because they make it to the Finals with an awesome team, only to have several players “injured” or “rested” before the real playoffs, making it that much harder to upset a team in the playoffs kind of defeats the purpose of even having the playoffs. Maybe try some Roto instead of H2H?

I guess when it comes to trying to figure out a way to incorporate the NBA playoffs in fantasy basketball, my feeling is: There are separate fantasy basketball games designed solely for the playoffs. That’s the way it should stay.

I would be up for some H2H with no playoffs at all, though. What do people think about that? Better or worse than a playoff keeper+redraft?

Other Stuff Like This:

  • terrance

    not really looking for a team breakdown, just wanted to share. You can comment on my best and worst pick if you’d like. 14 man rosters, 14 teams.

    my favorite pick: jamal crawford with pick 80

    least favorite pick: zach randolph pick 89

    I have no PGs, and I’m trying to move randolph for TJ ford, conley, or rondo.

    5) Elton Brand PF,C (over dirk, KG, wade)
    (24) Tim Duncan PF,C (calderon available)
    (33) David West PF (iguadala available)
    (52) Michael Redd SG,SF (umm, bogut, terry, oden)

    (61) Mike Miller SG,SF (david lee, terry, beasley, maggette)

    (80) Jamal Crawford PG,SG (kirilenko, ford)
    (89) Zach Randolph PF (rip hamilton, rondo, monta ellis)
    (108) Beno Udrih PG
    (117) Drew Gooden PF (mike conley)
    (136) Boris Diaw PF,C
    (145) Anthony Carter PG (wow, hakim warrick, missed that)
    (164) Tyrus Thomas SF,PF
    (173) Andray Blatche PF,C
    (192) Brandon Bass SF,PF

  • http://www.epicte.com Nick

    Wow. Nels, FTW.

  • http://www.2ndroundreach.blogspot.com Brendan K.

    Hmmm… I like the current system, but H2H no playoffs might be kind of cool. I’ll go ahead and give it up for the shorter season. You are right, and I only meant to agree with you in my post. Excellent stuff here, Nels, and not just because Simmons’ article is ridiculous. I think this merits a definitive statement on this summer’s discussion of a standardized fantasy basketball format. It’s long overdue, and will help the game increase its following as much as anything Simmons offers.

    Seriously though, 10 teams? The man plays in leagues with 10 teams and still has a hard time with positions? With so few teams, isn’t every squad, like, 6 Kobes and 2 Marcus Cambys? Jeez…

  • http://eastversuswest.blogspot.com Mike Plugh

    First, I didn’t read everything in this entry. I stopped about 1/3 of the way through. This, I assure you, is not my regular pattern at Gimme Da Rox. I enjoy every word.

    I stopped reading because I realized that you spent all that time writing an analysis of a Bill Simmons, “The Sports Guy” article. Simmons hasn’t been relevant for 3 years, at least, and I can’t bear the sight of his headshot at ESPN let alone his writing. He’s the journalistic equivalent of mascot dunk shows and junior dance teams at halftime. Un.Bear.Able.

    The notion that something needs fixing in fantasy hoops is stupid on its face. Fantasy Hoops has absolutely exploded over the last 6-7 years. I remember playing offline with friends years ago and it took way too much effort to tally up the box scores via USA Today to keep track of the H2H situation each week. Online fantasy hoops has revolutionized the industry, spawned opportunities for writers like us, opportunities for nerds like us to compare our teams and hope for feedback. (See above: I do it all the time too.)

    If fantasy hoops needed any changes you’d hear people complaining about it. You don’t. There’s such a tremendous variety of rules and leagues, anyone can find something to suit their particular sensibilities. Fantasy hoops is not a monolithic thing. It’s a diverse, malleable, and customizable industry that is booming beyond belief. ESPN.com needs revising. Bill Simmons needs to be revised (or better yet replaced).

  • tanat-0s

    ^ Simmons haters are funny mostly cause they sound incredibly bitter without even realizing it (that not aimed at you, Nels, of course).

    I actually play in a league where actual play-offs are included into fantasy season. We play Yahoo H2H, 7 cats (pts, rebs, ast, stls, blks, 3s, FG%) – fewer cats to make up for increased draft difficulty. Our season consists of standart yahoo regular season, standart yahoo playoffs and The League Cup (like in soccer), which takes place during real NBA playoffs. We do this whole re-draft thing after yahoo playoffs, although we only use players from the wire. Yeah, and we count stats manually during Cup matchups, now how hardcore is that?

    It can be very interesting, although there is a priorities problem. See, some managers value winning in regular season and in yahoo playoffs more than winning in the Cup. There is always that temptation to draft “good” player on a bad team over some role player from a good team and dominate through the regular season. I call it “Suns vs. Spurs” dillema and it can really kill the competitiveness in the league.

  • terrance

    i like simmons, but im a celtics fan. i like when he talks about the good old days with him and his father talking about the old celtics teams.

    I think fantasy basketball is fine. I play with yahoo and over the past couple of seasons yahoo has improved several things. This season theyve added a keeper tag to apply to players if youre in a keeper. I like the fantasy profile they do. The new interface of the draftboard is ok. One thing I would like to see added is to let the commish of the league set a date for the playoffs to start. Yahoo should start the playoffs two weeks earlier and end the seasons after every nba team has played 77 games. That way you every team gets 77 games, that would rule out any fantasy manager getting cheated in games. So what if the bulls 77 game is on a tuesday and the nuggets 77 game is on the upcoming thursday. Its still 77.

    But i like it the way it is, every manager has to deal with it.

  • Doneycat

    I’m in the camp that there’s not a whole lot in fantasy basketball that needs fixing. On a lot of good sites you can customize what you want for your league. I’m pretty sure on nba.com, you can arrange the schedule in certain ways so playoffs are earlier and you can consolidate short weeks. Heck, his NBA Cares Celebrity league was a points league where you can weight certain categories and I know you can change weights.

    I’m more upset about ESPN the Magazine. Last year, they had a huge spread on fantasy basketball and a 4+ page article on why fantasy basketball was cool. This year, they tucked in a top 100 player ranking at the back of a Jose Calderon article, then had a 2 page Hollinger fantasy-like article. Love or hate Hollinger, he’s not a fantasy guy, and they have good ones on staff like Karabell, Lake, and even that turnover-hating douche Berry.

    Also, I think Simmons is used to the football free agent system where the last place teams get first dibs on waivers. Most BBall leagues I’ve been in, free agents are first come first serve, and waiver wire initially is inverse of draft order then go to the back of the line once you use it. Again, makes you question what types of leagues he’s been playing in.

  • seanlb

    I knew there was a big post coming. I wonder if Bill reads GMTR. I bet he’s seen it at least. I think one of the main reasons I like GMTR is that it fills the spot that Bill used to fill. I don’t like him very much anymore. I used to tell people that he was the best sports talking head out there.

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Patrick

    That’s it, I’m completely tanking my next draft so I get the first shot at all those amazing free agents! Robert Swift, Leon Powe and JJ Redick, come to poppa.

    I actually wonder if Bill Simmons actually plays in fantasy basketball leagues besides those celebrity “leagues” he talks smack about from time to time. As Doneycat mentioned, the annoying worst team gets the best free agent picks is totally a football thing, where free agent pickups are a once a week affair. That complaint makes no sense in the context of fantasy basketball.

  • dyeyk2000

    Wow. That’s a lot of words.

    Anyway, this is quite disappointing. I’ve never seen Bill Simmons shoot himself this much in the foot. It’s obvious that the man is trying to innovate for the sake of innovation. The problems he posts are relevant don’t get me wrong, but the solutions he posts are shallow, like something he just jotted down in 10 min.

    I could have a million opinions on this article, but one that stands out the most is my rebuttal on his view of the kinds of statistics we use for fantasy (points, rebs, blocks etc)

    We have to take step back and look at history here. For years, basketball statistics has been very shallow. We thought that what makes a player good, are the amount of points or blocks or rebounds he gets. Thus we patterned Fantasy Basketball on those stats. But we know now that that is not true. Basketball Statistics have advanced and we have better measurements such as Ass/TO ratio, PER, +/-, Win Scores, Usage Rate, Rebound Rate etc. All better gauges of a players true value. Even real NBA teams rely heavily on these stats.

    If he wanted to talk about realism, why not use the above statistics for a fantasy league? I for one, find the idea intriguing <3

  • http://www.2ndroundreach.blogspot.com Brendan K.

    He used to BE one of the best sportswriters around, and regardless of if we still like him he was by far one of the most influential writers in establishing sports blogging as a viable medium. I actually e-mailed him to show him my post, just because I wouldn’t want people criticizing me without letting me see it. If he sees it, I doubt he’ll respond.

    I’ve been a lot more vitriolic about corporate fantasy “experts” like the guys on ESPN or CBS lately. I just think that fantasy bloggers are more about the edge of theory and player rating, where the big companies are more interested in administering leagues and driving up market share, so you get guys like Karabell just sound like an idiot with his “out there” argument for Chris Paul at #2 behind LeBron.

  • dyeyk2000

    I also think that waiver auction is too complicated a solution for a simple problem. I’ve always hated waiver runs for the week’s hot player. Especially when some guys practically stake-out on a box score the whole game so they can swoop in on the hot player before everybody else. It becomes a race to the nearest internet connected PC.

    SOLUTION?

    Have all FA on permanent waiver-wire status until somebody picks them up, in which case a 1 day waiver deadline (12mn) commences.

    This way everybody lines up. Say for example, last year, when Ford went down, everybody must have raced to their monitors to pick up Calderon. In this system, no such thing happens, everybody is given the rest of the day to “bid” for Calderon off the waivers. By 12mn that day, the system looks at all the players who have bids and then sorts the winners by waiver priority. Those who won the waiver pick up, automatically gets moved to end of the waiver priority queue. Those who don’t have bids remain in a permanent waiver-wire status. Easy peasy.

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Nels

    It is times like these I wish I’d signed up for IntenseDebate before they were bought by Automattic. Now I can’t get my threaded comments plugin until they open it up again.

    @dyeyk, I tried to come up with a Points league where the Points awarded were based on Hollinger’s PER calculation (the simple version – without all the normalization). In the end, it made it harder to assess player value, the points awarded were kind of like funny munny, and it didn’t change the value of most players significantly.

    @Brendan, you hit upon one of the very reasons I started this blog in the first place. Those experts don’t give us enough content over the summer, and then when they bombard us in Sept/Oct, it’s fairly obvious or stuff that’s just not very accurate.

    @dyeyk (pt 2), I agree with your Waiver Wire idea. I think it totally makes sense to have WW/Free Agent pick ups only processed once a day based on how many people are trying to pick up each particular player. Is there a way to do that in any league you know of? I think Yahoo basically does this at the beginning of the season where players go on Waivers after the draft, but that only lasts for as long as the normal Waiver Wire length.

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Nels

    FYI: for everyone reading the comments, the new “profile icons” are from Gravatar.com. So, if you go over there and sign up with the email address you use here, you can have a fancy little icon too!

  • Doneycat

    I’m going to be in an nba.com league with a waiver wire budget, so I’ll see how that goes. I will let all y’all know, I’m a waiver wire hound, and that worked some for me recently (Bynum, Calderon) and some not (Mikki Moore). It’s certainly not a league killer, and plenty of times, the league is won by a guy making minimal moves.

  • Doneycat

    Mild threadjack, but Patrick, in that 30 team CBS Sportsline league, does Evan Silva of Rotoworld have a metal plate in his head or does he have his pre-draft rankings set on “random”? I gotta see what he comes up with in round 12. I’m thinking Jannero Pargo.

  • dyeyk2000

    @nels – No idea where to get that kind of service. I’m not sure but it might be part of the pay service of yahoo. Nonetheless if somebody could find a fantasy site that can provide that setup, that would be great!

  • http://www.givemetherock.com Patrick

    @Doneycat – Well, let me say this about the 30-man in the nicest way possible. CBS pre-rankings are indeed a little wacky, at least compared to most of the other rankings out there. They’re really big fans of Danilo Gallinari, for example, and I believe Dwight Howard was like their 2nd or 3rd top ranked center.

    There is a time limit on draft picks (1.5 hr during working hours), which in a 30-man league can get a confusing even with automatic email updates. While most people have been on the ball, there have been a few autopicks from the CBS list.

    I can’t speak for Evan Silva personally, but after looking at his picks so far, I do like his 3,4, and 5 a lot better than his 1 and 2.

  • Doneycat

    Yeah, those 3 4 and 5 picks were a little better. I’m a little upset he didn’t go reaching all the way through. Good luck!

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